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Would you like to switch?
Yes, it's a great idea. 75%  75%  [ 12 ]
I don't care. 12%  12%  [ 2 ]
I don't see the point. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
No, it's a terrible idea. 12%  12%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 16 - total voters: 16
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 Post subject: Re: New Software
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:44 am 
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Oracle of the Slipper
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Ragora wrote:
Quite possibly the most influential reason I may provide is that even though I am of the "new" generation, I am quite an ardent fan of the classics. I like games such as Tribes 2, BattleZone, Morrowind and other mostly forgotten titles in this age. That being said, I also liked Zork and any other game utilizing text as its sole component to describe the scene to players. I've noticed that the more modern games, Call of Duty, Unreal Tournament, etc are doing very little to make anything unique aside from perhaps upgrading the graphics a bit. Any of the games I saw that did implement anything unique tended to just have one unique function with which the entire game was hung upon, quickly wearing out that function or even sidestepping the game altogether. I noticed this in games such as Bullet Storm or Red Faction: Guerilla.


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I don't think I can say much else, other than to say I'm proud of the stand you're taking. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: New Software
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:18 pm 
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Movie Monster
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I wouldn't mind the change, if I ever get the chance to make use of it. It sounds like fun. It was a bit off putting trying to deal with the MUCK beyond the simple act of chatting when I first got into it, for sure.

And even later on with a few years of computer science training I still think MUF was a lot of guff and it seemed like madness to even bother. Python I can deal with.

It is also right and proper for a scaly MUCK to be programmed in Python.
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 Post subject: Re: New Software
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:29 pm 
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Any recent news on this?

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 Post subject: Re: New Software
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:57 am 
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Blue Raptor
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And I even voted for yes, mind you.

But very few people care about MUCKs these days, so it probably is not worth bothering indeed.
Also, Faibanx is quite the code mess.
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 Post subject: Re: New Software
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:00 am 
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Oracle of the Slipper
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Yeah, Faibanx and Fuzzball are, but Ragora's new system is the shit. :) I bet if I asked Ragora to do what I needed for Match Game the other day, it would've been like *click click* done! :)

I have most certainly not forgotten about Ragora's software, and it is most definitely still on a burner. 2014 is the year of server and software upgrades, and upgrading the muck to ScalesMUCK is definitely still in play.

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 Post subject: Re: New Software
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:48 pm 
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Self-made mule
Posts: 261
Species: hinny
Location: Speed City, IN
So how would this work, exactly?

Like, if I were to @dig here "Patch's fabulously radon-filled spook mansion" (next to Dino's Slippers-Only Lounge ("no shirt, no shoes, it's business" ™) and across the street from Tombfyre's Bouncy Castle (spoilers: it's just Tombfyre, actually. He's already bouncy and has now found some way to become rather castle-shaped, potential vore-warning for all who dare enter), then how and where would I add the event hooks? Do we have the Observer Pattern tucked away somewhere and I just register a Subject with the correct interface? Do I just code up some new Listener class for move oil painting which will cause a trap door to open and drop the triggering player(s) into the basement? What if I would like the house to take their all items and automatically put them up for auction on FaiBay, based off some algorithm which -- oh... say... adjusts the starting bid according to the number of times that it says "kruft" in the item's description? Where would I stick the code for that as a user? Are there folders or something for Dino to just drop the modules for each room or such when we poke him (hopefully successfully without crushing his poor green self).

Enlighten me here.
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 Post subject: Re: New Software
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:36 pm 
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Location: Faibanx
I had wondered what had happened to this.
I guess that answers that.
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 Post subject: Re: New Software
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:35 pm 
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Species: Celtic Dragon
Location: Faibanx
This is sort of what I was getting at with my post on page one.
It's great that the software is being updated to something that still exists.
But the big thing is, everything is already in place as is.
The only reason to do something like this would be to advance the platform to the point where it uses a set of instructions and code that still exists.
And it looks very much like you've done so. I was on it.
The old muck software that we know was chosen because it was lightweight and easy on computers made 25 or so years ago.
It's exceptionally outdated now, but it still works.
Considering that mucks are a bit of a dying breed, it would be a very niche program.
It's not that it's not needed, or even unwanted. It's just a very niche market.
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 Post subject: Re: New Software
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:33 pm 
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Quote:
I had a handful of reasons for wanting to do it which I felt would have benefited the people at one point or another, and so I suppose I need to reiterate over them.

1. Better database format. The current format is the work of someone who really didn't know how to implement a proper database system,
it is just a giant ASCII dump that nobody really knows the format of anyway as I had to spend a decent bit of time myself reverse engineering it from the base databases to even begin working on the converter I was going to use to bring Faibanx up to date.
2. Better scripting, since it was written in Python and so would the commands, it would be significantly easier to write stuff for the MUCK that's easier to use (and less broken, see: Inrooms) and to make more advanced commands as it's easier to interact with the database and it's actually possible to bring in third party code to do quite literally anything. Some people didn't quite see the benefit of this, I see it as something to improve so that people would actually -like- to code things for the MUCK.
3. People apparently objected to the improved commands mentioned in #2 so I decided I should go along with it and also write a Fuzzball reimplementation so that you had commands that operated in the same way as the old MUCK.

I was completely willing to accommodate at every single turn, I had actually bothered to write the software and I was going to let it have a test drive before completely replacing the old MUCK to have a chance to iron out any last minute kinks but apparently this isn't possible.

I don't care that it was a niche thing to do, it was decent programming practice for me in the end either way. It taught me how to use GIT properly as this is project was the first major codebase I had used GIT for. Furthermore, I developed a decent versioning paradigm from it as my old versioning scheme for ScalyMUCK was completely out of control. It has even taught me some basics of persistent storage across a network as I had to eventually work out a failsafe in the event the connection was closed or the database server became unreachable. The project also taught me that I should think ahead when developing software, as the original codebase that took about two days to actually complete (ask Dinosorceror) was an absolute mess and from then on the core received two more major enhancements that probably should have been in there from the start.

I was just trying to do something nice with my educational drive, but apparently that's a bad thing to do.


So it was part fun and productive learning experience for you, part pet project, part a desire to do something positive to modernise Faibanx for the benefit of all. As with any modernisation project there are always naysayers, people who say "it's not broke, don't fix it". Never the less, the world moves on despite the objectors, otherwise we'd all still be living in caves.

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 Post subject: Re: New Software
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:31 pm 
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Oracle of the Slipper
Posts: 2659
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I know we'll be moving to RagoraMUCK, just a matter of when. I'm so lazy! :)

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 Post subject: Re: New Software
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:20 pm 
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Posts: 73
Species: Celtic Dragon
Location: Faibanx
DarkDragonDX wrote:

I had a handful of reasons for wanting to do it which I felt would have benefited the people at one point or another, and so I suppose I need to reiterate over them.

1. Better database format. The current format is the work of someone who really didn't know how to implement a proper database system,
it is just a giant ASCII dump that nobody really knows the format of anyway as I had to spend a decent bit of time myself reverse engineering it from the base databases to even begin working on the converter I was going to use to bring Faibanx up to date.
2. Better scripting, since it was written in Python and so would the commands, it would be significantly easier to write stuff for the MUCK that's easier to use (and less broken, see: Inrooms) and to make more advanced commands as it's easier to interact with the database and it's actually possible to bring in third party code to do quite literally anything. Some people didn't quite see the benefit of this, I see it as something to improve so that people would actually -like- to code things for the MUCK.
3. People apparently objected to the improved commands mentioned in #2 so I decided I should go along with it and also write a Fuzzball reimplementation so that you had commands that operated in the same way as the old MUCK.

I was completely willing to accommodate at every single turn, I had actually bothered to write the software and I was going to let it have a test drive before completely replacing the old MUCK to have a chance to iron out any last minute kinks but apparently this isn't possible.

I don't care that it was a niche thing to do, it was decent programming practice for me in the end either way. It taught me how to use GIT properly as this is project was the first major codebase I had used GIT for. Furthermore, I developed a decent versioning paradigm from it as my old versioning scheme for ScalyMUCK was completely out of control. It has even taught me some basics of persistent storage across a network as I had to eventually work out a failsafe in the event the connection was closed or the database server became unreachable. The project also taught me that I should think ahead when developing software, as the original codebase that took about two days to actually complete (ask Dinosorceror) was an absolute mess and from then on the core received two more major enhancements that probably should have been in there from the start.

I was just trying to do something nice with my educational drive, but apparently that's a bad thing to do.


1. No argument there. At the time that was pretty much it, considering the way things developed.
2&3. It wasn't so much a negative reaction as it was being unsure, or an unwillingness to relearn how to do things. It's akin to tire kicking a car you'll never drive. I'm sure if they tried it, it would not be quite so unappealing.
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